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#1 2009-03-28 18:33:55

edo512
Contributor
Registered: 2008-10-07
Posts: 103

14443 type B tags

Hi all,

  I am having quite a lot of trouble reading type B tags: no matter what I do the hi14read command does not do much, and hi14snoop sometimes gives good results, but is very sensitive to the probe's placement. I suspect my home-made antenna, actually...

  Does anyone else have experience on 14443 type B modulation with the Proxmark ?

Ed

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#2 2009-04-01 16:58:56

henrym97
Contributor
From: North America
Registered: 2009-01-23
Posts: 18

Re: 14443 type B tags

Ed,

My experience has been Type B cards require more energy to power up than Type A cards so your antenna has to really be tuned for consistent, repeatable results.  The card will couple with the PM3 antenna as you've noticed, effectively de-tuning the antenna.  Try different distances between the two and see if you get better results as right on top of the PM3 antenna is sometimes not the best placement.   

What kind of antenna are you using?  I've had succes by making a loop out of formable wire and then "tuning" it by changing the shape until the tune command reports the largest value.  A better approach is to insert a trimmer cap on the PM3 at C36 (an AVX CTZ3E-50C-W1-PF fits nicely between C36 pad and TP3 pad).  That way you can tune any antenna for different situations (and different cards).  Using this technique I was able to read Type B cards repeatably.


~Henry

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#3 2009-04-10 13:13:14

proxcat
Contributor
Registered: 2008-11-28
Posts: 62
Website

Re: 14443 type B tags

Ed, any progress?

I've been tinkering with 14443b and have been having similar results.


[url=http://proxmark3.com/]Buy a Proxmark[/url]

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#4 2009-04-10 13:45:39

edo512
Contributor
Registered: 2008-10-07
Posts: 103

Re: 14443 type B tags

henrym97 wrote:

Using this technique I was able to read Type B cards repeatably.

Henry, would you have examples - screenshots or traces - of what a "good read" looks like with your antenna ?

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#5 2009-04-15 02:14:07

amicable_libran
Member
Registered: 2009-04-13
Posts: 2

Re: 14443 type B tags

Hi Guys
I am implementing ISO 14443 B protocol using NI system and Labview 8.5. I am looking for an HF Transceiving Antenna  (13.56 Mhz).Could you please suggest me an antenna that I could buy which is not too expensive.

Thanks in Advance

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#6 2009-04-16 09:41:46

edo512
Contributor
Registered: 2008-10-07
Posts: 103

Re: 14443 type B tags

Ok, I had it all wrong: the hi14read function, despite the "rawadcsamples" function calls, does not output Raw samples whatsoever: it actually decodes the hex value of the response, and stores it in the output buffer. You get the actual value by typing hexsamples. It was that simple smile

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#7 2009-11-22 11:01:12

jonor
Contributor
Registered: 2009-09-17
Posts: 95

Re: 14443 type B tags

Which is the voltage drop of a 14443B tags?
My PIII rev. 258 (last) has normal:

# LF antenna:  0.00 V @   125.00 kHz
# LF antenna:  0.13 V @   134.00 kHz
# LF optimal:  0.00 V @ 12000.00 kHz
# HF antenna: 11.12 V @    13.56 MHz

and with unknow tags:

# LF antenna:  0.00 V @   125.00 kHz
# LF antenna:  0.00 V @   134.00 kHz
# LF optimal:  0.00 V @ 12000.00 kHz
# HF antenna:  6.83 V @    13.56 MHz   [~ 4.29 V drop ]

Is it could be a 14443B tags?

> hi14bdemod tell me too weak to sync
> hi14list
recorded activity:
time   :rssi: who bytes
---------+----+----+-----------
+      0:    :      (SHORT)
+      0:    :      (SHORT)
.....
+      0:    :      (SHORT)
+      0:    :      (SHORT)

Do I need increase the HF Voltage? Is it ok?

Thank you for help

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#8 2009-11-22 11:56:41

jonor
Contributor
Registered: 2009-09-17
Posts: 95

Re: 14443 type B tags

After a
> hi14read
#db# 00000003, 00000000, 00000000

I have this result

> hi14list
recorded activity:
time   :rssi: who bytes
---------+----+----+-----------
+      0:    :     44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44   **FAIL CRC**
+      0:    :     44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 03 ff 03 00 03 00 03 ff 03 ff 04 00 03 ff 03 00 03 ff 03 ff 04 00 03 ff 03 00   **FAIL CRC**
+985643711: 196612: TAG 00 03 ff   **FAIL CRC**
+-2130640896:    :     ff 03 ff   **FAIL CRC**
+2130575616: -16580605: TAG ff 03 00   **FAIL CRC**
+-2130706432:    :     ff 03 ff 03   **FAIL CRC**

Someone can I help me?
Thank you

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#9 2009-11-22 14:38:46

jonor
Contributor
Registered: 2009-09-17
Posts: 95

Re: 14443 type B tags

I tried to read a SRIX4K (ISO14443B) with command sri512read and work perfectly. The command read only from 0x0 to 0xF blocks, the SRIX4K has more block but not problem, I think a simple patch to source and I can introduce a new command.
I have a Volt drop of ~ 1.90 V

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